"It won't tell you anything you don't already know," he says, not meaning to get defensive, but he kind of is. "I don't understand the standards because I think calling them standards is probably being too generous. It's different for everyone, like I said."

And the fact that some of the people who walked off this boat had really hurt him and never thought about it again means nothing, and he knows it. He knows it, but it still hurts, and he doesn't want to talk about it, because it just sounds self-centered, like most things he says does.

"It's not like passing some test or checking off some boxes. It's up to you to get to know your inmate and learn who they are and how to help them, or how to help them help themselves."